0:00This episode is sponsored by CloudFlare [music]. >> Coming up next on the Frequency Podcast stage, please welcome James Governor and Kate Holterhoff. >> Well, hello James. So, we are here. It's day two of CloudFlare Connect 2026. I'm sitting here in the podcast booth with my good friend James Governor, co-founder RedMonk. My name is Kate Holterhoff. I'm a senior analyst and we're here for a quick take. >> Quick take. >> So, we're going to keep it as brief as possible. >> It's going to be going to be snappy. >> I don't know if we're capable of it, but we're going to do the best we can. >> is all about performance, right? So, we we can get this done really fast. >> This is a good point. And today is an auspicious day for me especially. Uh >> Happy birthday to you. >> I appreciate that.

0:45>> to you. >> I'm trying to remind as many people >> Happy birthday to you. >> Thank you for doing my >> Is that why the show has a different way? There's a different Is that not what you were going to say? It's It's not about your birthday. But why Why is it an auspicious day? Is it about your birthday? Is that >> A number of exciting things are happening. My birthday is just one of many. >> many. >> Anyways, so I I I'm excited to round up all the things that we've heard. Uh we have been to now two keynotes at Connect. Uh lots of exciting conversations. We're here to as James says sort of summarize our reckons. >> Our reckons, that's correct. >> That's right. Okay, that's how they say it in London. Uh yes, and I don't know how they say it in Cincinnati, Ohio, but you know, I I don't even involve that particular word.

1:31So, we're going to be thinking through the big themes. And I guess what we could really start with is is maybe the idea of whether or not this is a developer conference, James. >> Is it a developer conference? >> a developer conference? >> I I I mean, if it is, it's as I spoke to someone just just previously, they said it is a If it is, it's a security forward developer conference. >> Yeah. >> And I think our question comes out of the the huge number of uh developers that are represented here at Connect. >> Unbelievable. >> Rita told us that there are a number of sessions for developers. She also told us just the the number of people that are are using Cloudflare uh as developers. So, the the number is going straight up. >> But they got charts. They got 10 million developers that are here.

2:18>> Well, um >> This is a This is a I think a more customer-focused conference than a developer conference at the moment. >> Yeah. I mean, some of the sessions today were about leadership, but I think what is striking to us about this session is >> Do you think it's a developer conference? >> Well, I I'm I'm struggling here because it made me ask myself, what the heck is a developer conference? >> you're a front-end person. And they they have acquired all of the front-end talent. >> That's right. >> All of the front-end talent. They're They're They're all here now. >> Right. >> Where are they? I have I have not I have not seen them on stage yet. >> There have been many on stage, James. Take it back. It's wrong. Okay. So, we had Spit Facts. Well, um I mean, obviously Evan You was up on stage. >> amazing. Okay. Front end. Yep. There you go. >> Okay. And and of course uh Void Zero was an acquisition that Cloudflare made earlier this year. Very exciting.

3:03Um but I I was hoping to hear from Ryan. >> Where was Ryan Dahl, Kate? >> I'm a big Ryan Dahl fan. So, >> Where was Ryan Dahl? >> Wasn't there. Um but I'm sure he's at some other sessions later. So, you know, maybe it was a schedule conflict. That's fine. Um but then we also had uh uh the creator of Open Claw was up on stage. >> Well, I mean, is that really front end? Is that >> No. No, no, no. I mean, I'm just >> Let's talk about Peter. Let's talk about Peter Starley and that was a great set. So, here's the thing. >> Amazing. >> I It is my suspicion >> Yeah. >> that this is not a developer conference. This is an engineering conference. >> Well, >> This is an engineering conference. But I think Peter is very interesting cuz he he is a great uh exemplar of, you know, the modern [snorts] AI-pilled software developer. So, Open Claw, one of the fastest-growing projects we've have seen.

3:51Mhm. Interesting positioning because you know, here is a guy that's like, I'm going to do an open source project and this is a time when open source as we know, a lot of maintainers, they are feeling burned out. There are there you know, slow PRs. There you know, so much pressure like is does open source have a future in this era of like agents where everyone can make their own snowflake all the time. So he's like, I'm going to do an open source project. I thought he said some very interesting things. So for me, I don't know whether this quick take, but two takeaways for me. One, the fact is for him it's like, well, if I'm going to use a framework, I'm going to test against all four I mean, he's $10 million a week is his token budget? Is that what he said? That was insane. So he's going to test all of the frameworks, understand how they behave before even considering making a change.

4:39So that's like for me, you know, I I came up with some progressive delivery. I mean, he's really taking that to a whole new level. So that was exciting. >> Yeah. >> The other thing from a a pull request perspective is that you know, we're in this age of automation. So like agents doing the coding, agents doing the review. He's here and he's like, we cannot just be taking drive-by PRs, right? We're not going to do that. We're going to have a small community of people and they have to explain that you know, where do you get credibility from? It's not that you've got the code to make the change. It's why did you make that decision? What else did you try? What were the engineering thoughts behind you coming and then making the pull request? Much more context, much more human communication and I thought that was really interesting from from the the perspective of yeah, as we say, open source is under pressure.

5:31Maintainers are being burned out. I think Peter put forward a view that's like highly valuable for a lot of the people in our community to start thinking about maybe you do need to limit you know, limit who you are, who's part of your community really cuz they they've got to take it seriously. Yeah. Yeah. Wow, that was a >> I I paid attention this morning. >> I'm deeply impressed. All right. Counterpoint. >> You that was quite a heavy That was quite a heavy deep impressive there. >> I'm sorry. >> Okay, that was That was well done. I'll get back in my box. Wow. Wow, Kate. I know it's your birthday, but wow. >> I'm just bringing the shade. >> Wow. Okay. >> Can't help it. Can't turn it off. Anyways, so counterpoint. Is it Is it a developer conference? Correct. Michelle Zatlyn, co-founder of Cloudflare, up on stage this morning.

6:17Such a great fireside chat. What really struck me is she was bringing in some hard leadership truths. >> Fire everybody. >> Oh my god. Yeah, it was Well, yeah. I mean, she was really She brought out this farmer metaphor talking about pruning >> Pruning? >> uh partners that are not advancing your organization. I was like, God, she's up here. >> Everybody's a builder. If they're not a builder, they're out. >> Yeah. Yeah, and >> Get rid of them. >> You know, um and of course, a lot of developers were uh noted uh some of the recent layoffs at Cloudflare. I mean, this is something that is uh happening uh across the industry. So, software developers are are are certainly um nervous. >> Is this a quick take? >> This is um We're going to Snappy. >> Snappy. Snappy. Okay. >> All right. But anyways, I I So So, the those sort of leadership conversations you don't typically see at >> a developer conference.

7:08>> Yeah. However, I was like, wow. And these are the kinds of things that uh developers need to hear about. >> Okay. >> Because they affect them deeply. Um so, you know, may maybe these borders between the C-suite and uh developers, ICs, is is dissolving a little bit in our gentic era. I don't know. >> Yeah. And you know, nobody nobody can afford to travel anymore. >> Right. >> At least from a timing perspective. So, like, if I leave the office, someone's going to replace me with an agent. >> Jeez. >> So, you know, maybe maybe maybe the future of dev conferences is different. They're going to have to be engineering conferences. >> Wow. Wow. wow. >> Whoa, could be could be the thing. >> Yeah, it really is. Um, okay, sandboxes, James. >> Oh god, I love sandboxes. >> you do. >> Just all that I am sand I am sandboxes all the time. >> All right, cuz security also came up quite a few times.

7:56>> Absolutely. >> And we were hit with some other deep truths about security. And James, talk to us about that. >> Sandboxes. Here's the thing about sandboxes. They sound They sound great. Oh, sandboxes, that's secure. We don't need to worry about it. Play in the sandbox. Hey, shovel in the sandbox. Everything is going to be fine in the sandbox. But the truth is, sandboxes, I mean all these people out there being it's secure, it's always on, scales to zero. It's all It's all great. These are all the things you need from a sandbox. But are they really secure? I thought that the the discussion yesterday, um with Cloudflare's CISO, he says, "Any agent worth its salt is going to break confinement. It's going to get out of the sandbox." And so thinking about that, that's that's the design principle we need to be working from.

8:41So we're at a conference, and this is a security-forward developer conference, engineering conference. Like, Cloudflare does kind of know something about security. >> Mhm. >> And so this there are a lot of players out there that are like, "We are good at sandboxes." Question is, are those sandboxes really secure? And I think if I'm going to be choosing a sandbox sandbox platform, I want I want you know, I I want to be choosing a platform where they're they're they're they're really thinking about from an engineering perspective. We have to expect it's going to break confinement. >> Yeah. >> So that was that was interesting. Sandboxes, great. >> I know. And and to our framing question, >> Isolates 10 years ago. They said 10 years ago, they launched workers. >> Yeah. >> And overnight a 10-year overnight success story.

9:26>> That's right. >> Been trundling along, but with agents, it's time. >> Yeah. >> Isolates, makes sense. >> Okay. Uh >> Is it a developer conference? >> Developers don't care about security. >> No, they don't give a >> They don't care. They don't want to hear about it. >> Somebody else's problem. That's 100% true. >> And here we are talking about security. >> Yep. >> And yet, in our gigantic era, on a day when PHP catches >> that was bad. >> everybody >> That was bad. >> came up several times in the keynote. It's on everyone's mind. Social media blowing up. Uh It's everybody's problem. WordPress. >> PHP >> I I mean, WordPress is definitely everyone's problem. >> Uh okay. >> That's That's a large a large proportion of the internet is WordPress.

10:12>> Right. >> Bad day for all of those admins today that are out in WordPress land cuz PHP critical vulnerability bad news. Um yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, security is important. It's everyone's job. >> Mhm. >> But developers don't really care. >> All right. >> Right. >> And yet, we're talking about it. This is something that is is happening here at at Cloudflare Connect. >> Okay. >> All right. Um >> Quick take. >> Yeah. >> Are we Is this quick? >> I think maybe. >> I don't know. Here's another one about why it's not really a developer conference. The announcements have already happened. >> Right. >> Like, developers want Red Week. Developers want red meat. They want like, give me you know, give me steak. You know, I want to eat I want to eat the announcements. I want news. I want real hard news. I don't want to hear about something you did before.

10:57But of course, Cloudflare innovated with the you know, basically they they do these weeks. Cloudflare week. You know, that's a that So, all of the announcements are at the beginning of October. So, that's when they make the announcements. >> Right. >> So, like, oh god, the entire internet is screwed from an SDLC perspective. Got the GitHub outages. Everybody's wanting to innovate around Git. Everyone's thinking we need a new platform for storage that's Git compatible. So, they announce that. They got artifacts. Then they're also like, everyone wants a new way of doing CI/CD. So, we're going to have workflows. That was like 2 weeks ago. That's like ancient history. >> So >> developers, like a developer conference, that's where the announcements happen. But Cloudflare, by innovating around these these these launch weeks, the developers already know what's going on.

11:45So it's it's a it's it's an engineering conference. >> Okay. Okay. I mean, I want to hear more about this. But how do you define like what's the difference? >> Oh, you you said you were going to do this and I didn't want to mean, what's the difference? I don't know there would be more more front-end frameworks are on stage at a developer conference. If you're going to hire every single front-end framework person in the industry, you better show them all on stage in the keynote. That's what happens at a developer conference. Okay, all the time. >> You know, I'm a little over enthusiastic. So yeah, I mean >> It's your birthday and you were a front-end person >> It's great. >> and you didn't know >> Sunil Pai >> Oh my god. >> Apparently he crushed it the day on Monday. I didn't I didn't know that he was Apparently he's going to replace us. He He is the >> of the gab.

12:31>> gift of the gab, the media guy, a future a future on TV. >> Yeah. >> Lovely Sunil. >> I know. Um I mean, maybe that's something to do with what great communicators a lot of the the leadership is. >> Oh my goodness, we said that. They all I mean, I don't know cuz if they all read philosophy or what it is, but mate, they are all top-class communicators at Cloudflare. >> Right. >> Like all of them. >> Yeah. So well >> I mean, sometimes you have at least one person that gets up and they're like a little bit >> stilted maybe >> reading from the teleprompter and they're not I mean world-class communicators there. >> Mhm. Mhm. >> Is this a quick take? We've been up here for about 45 minutes. I don't know if this is a quick take. >> Time to wrap it up. >> Has it been like We've been talking for about an hour. >> All right. >> You know. >> Well >> They're all about performance. They do things quickly here.

13:18Us, we just ramble on, don't get to the point. >> All right. You're going to sign us off? >> I don't know. No, you're going to sign us off. You You do the intros and outros, okay? I'm the troublemaker and that's the way it works. >> All right. Uh, this has been Kate O'Dara senior analyst at RedMonk. My co-host today is James Governor, co-founder RedMonk. >> There you go. >> With me in the podcast booth. We're here having too much fun as usual at Cloudflare Connect 2026 here in San Francisco. Thanks. [music]